Worst character of the sequels?

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What? Lando had a significant and impactful role in ESB and ROTJ. He was portrayed by an already established actor was praised for his performance. Nothing the character Rose did in TLJ warranted a single extra second of screen time on TROS.

Are you going with the diversity angle? Like Rose was there to fill a diversity spot? They had Finn for that. The actress was more than likely cast to try and grasp some of the Chinese audience (where Star Wars is not all that popular) but from a character standpoint Lando and Rose are not even in same stratosphere.
I think all of the characters had potential. If you gave me them just as a character sheet, I could intertwine them into a magnificent story, one that would have unfolded much differently than the PT did.
My point is that the characters are FINE!
The half-cocked story is just too ambitious (read LAME) for any character to appear to have worth much less be interesting.

Kennedy wanted agenda and woke crap to lead the way and show off diversity....
Joke was on her all along, STAR WARS WAS ALREADY DIVERSE!!!
It already had the strongest female lead in all of Sci-Fi...LEIA!!! she is not a damsel in distress that needs rescuing, she is an equal who actually saves the rescuers hides after their plan goes south. Proving that teamwork is key here.
 
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I get what you are going for with the diversity. I too would have liked to see an old, old wooden ship that was used during the Civil War era in these movies.
That was this Star Trek: TNG movie where they opened on a sailship for some reason, and some people were thrown overboard for some reason. But it was the holodeck anyway.
 
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That was this Star Trek: TNG movie where they opened on a sailship for some reason, and some people were thrown overboard for some reason. But it was the holodeck anyway.
Funny thing is I was thinking about that scene this morning, It's Worf's celebration for a rank promotion.
 
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I don’t know what the point of anyone or anything in the sequels was so why single Rose out?
 
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I don’t know what the point of anyone or anything in the sequels was so why single Rose out?
I think because Rose kinda personified almost everything wrong with those movies. The character (not the ****ing actress before people get bent out of shape) was a useless, shallow, possibly agenda driven waste - which pretty much sums up the ST. If I had to pick one character out out to represent just how bad the ST was it would be Rose (again the CHARACTER)
 
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And I disagree with THAT, because the Sifo-Dyas mystery is the core of many an open question that left me baffled.

The fact alone that the Jedi never followed the money trail, and apparently never investigated the specifications of the clones, is a huge plot hole. "Oh, good ol' Sifo had an army made for us, great, wonder where the money came from, I bet he won the lottery and never told us! Good thing he had the foresight to make us three million literal fighting slaves against all tenets of the order, and all those nifty battleships and walkers and starfighters and military toys that we could theoretically overthrow the Republic with. Sifo must have followed the Will of the Force, I mean, it's our explanation for everything, so we absolutely don't need to do anything about it. Look, there are separatists about, we don't have no time to question any Kaminoans about the obedience of the clones. Also, whatever happened to Sifo afterwards is in no manner sus at all. Ha, ha, the little rascal was always such a rogue, so we don't speculate why he ignores the Jedi Council and does things on a galactic scale in complete secrecy. Here's that great army, and we're unquestioningly using it for some war, and become generals because, well, I dunno, we never trained for the military, but I bet it's the Will of... you know."

The whole Sifo-Dyas thing, plus the beginnings of the Clone Wars in toto is a totally different caliber than a throwoff line about Beggar's Canyon where there is not only no need to know details, but no further impact on the story beyond what the phrase encompasses.
I can respect what you are saying here.

I don't have any knowledge about the paper trail, but I think there are 2 factors at work. According to what I understand (canon / noncanon who knows anymore?) Sifo Dyas ordered the army. Obi Wan found it. Within hours/days? the army was fighting with the Jedi against the separatists. They didn't have time to question it, but I'm sure there were plenty of questions. They clearly were not able to tie the clone army to the Sith and that was their downfall. They had no reason to question Sifo Dyas motivations... he was on the Jedi Council at one point. They didn't even think Dooku was a 'bad guy'.. just a political idealist. They had no way to connect Dooku to Tyranus any more than they had a way to connect Palpatine to Sidious. By the time they had the connection, Order 66 made it too late.

Finally, if we allow the Darth Plagueis novel into canon... we get the answer that Damask Holdings ... owned by Plagueis <also unknown as a Sith, funded the clones. Then Sidious kills Plagueis, Dooku kills Sifo Dyas and there we are. Funded by a holding company linked to the Intergalactic Banking Clan which were separatist linked... but again, no direct connection to tell the Jedi that this was a plot to destroy the Jedi. They were a bit arrogant... Order 66 ... not so arrogant anymore.
 
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I could be wrong and totally admit if I am. I could have swore there was a ton of discussion regarding her being part of the movie to get more interest from China. Again I could totally be off base and if so...my bad.
I was joking really... I do not have any information on diversity there, but China certainly was a factor in getting Chirrut and Baze into Rogue One.
 
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I was joking really... I do not have any information on diversity there, but China certainly was a factor in getting Chirrut and Baze into Rogue One.
It is possible I was crossing wires and thinking back to Chirrut and Baze
 
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I’ll never get it. To me she (and Paige’s death scene) was the only thing that really worked in the sequels. Well Harrison Ford’s acting too.

Then again I will never get why people like sports instead of Star Wars either.
 
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I’ll never get it. To me she (and Paige’s death scene) was the only thing that really worked in the sequels. Well Harrison Ford’s acting too.

Then again I will never get why people like sports instead of Star Wars either.
Paige's death was well done. Rose's connection to Paige was also a good piece of writing. You really can't overlook almost everything else though.
 
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re: syfo-dias

IIRC there's a brief passage in the novelization where Mace questions the connection between jango and the clone army. to Mace, it seems like quite a coincidence, that the SAME guy who was used as a DNA template for the army, was ALSO the guy who tried to kill padme -- he decides it was because of padme's opposition to the military creation act -- as per, whoever ordered the army must have thought that padme had the political power to STOP the army from being used... so they sent Jango to kill her (in order to protect the republic / protect the army). it didn't occur to him that this same faction was also the "bad guys".
 
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I can respect what you are saying here.

I don't have any knowledge about the paper trail, but I think there are 2 factors at work. According to what I understand (canon / noncanon who knows anymore?) Sifo Dyas ordered the army. Obi Wan found it. Within hours/days? the army was fighting with the Jedi against the separatists. They didn't have time to question it, but I'm sure there were plenty of questions. They clearly were not able to tie the clone army to the Sith and that was their downfall. They had no reason to question Sifo Dyas motivations... he was on the Jedi Council at one point. They didn't even think Dooku was a 'bad guy'.. just a political idealist. They had no way to connect Dooku to Tyranus any more than they had a way to connect Palpatine to Sidious. By the time they had the connection, Order 66 made it too late.

Finally, if we allow the Darth Plagueis novel into canon... we get the answer that Damask Holdings ... owned by Plagueis <also unknown as a Sith, funded the clones. Then Sidious kills Plagueis, Dooku kills Sifo Dyas and there we are. Funded by a holding company linked to the Intergalactic Banking Clan which were separatist linked... but again, no direct connection to tell the Jedi that this was a plot to destroy the Jedi. They were a bit arrogant... Order 66 ... not so arrogant anymore.
Before they retconned the hell out of and overexplained it...
I honesty thought that Sifo Dias was intended to be the Jedi alias of Palpatine's Darth Sideous.

Look at the name it is so similar
SI fo. DEOUS
Actually fits in line with the entire story and its simplicity. Palpy makes an army sneaks around the back and takes control of said army right in front of everyone...

ta da. Easy and simple.
 
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^^ that was the original intent.

originally, GL's name for the mysterious jedi was "Sido Dyas" (aka: sidious).
but in one instance in the screenplay, he accidentally typed "Sifo" instead of "Sido"
(because the F and D are adjacent on the keyboard).

enter: Sifo Dyas -- this character was the result of a TYPO. :rolleyes:

Behind the scenes
In an early draft of Star Wars: Episode II Attack of the Clones, the name of the Jedi who contacted the Kaminoans was "Sido-Dyas," a false identity for Darth Sidious. Obi-Wan Kenobi claimed to have never heard of him, and Mace Windu confirmed no Jedi of that name existed. In the draft, one instance of Sido-Dyas was misspelled as "Sifo-Dyas," to which the name was ultimately changed.

His backstory was originally promised by George Lucas to be revealed in Star Wars: Episode III Revenge of the Sith. However, once Lucas refocused the film's story to center on Anakin, he was forced to cut several plot points related to Attack of the Clones, including Sifo-Dyas' backstory.
 
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Ah, you're challenging my SW lore a lot... I must admit, I only watched the decisive Clone Wars episode once, and I needed to re-read the Wookieepedia to get the Sifo-Dyas backstory completed.

I don't have any knowledge about the paper trail, but I think there are 2 factors at work. According to what I understand (canon / noncanon who knows anymore?) Sifo Dyas ordered the army.
From the lore, initially yes, because of visions of the future (whatever happened to Always in motion, the future is?). He's even thrown off the Jedi Council for insisting on a Republic Army before that. However, it is Sidious or Tyranus who complete the order, including the obedience chip, and would pay for it (because Sifo-Dyas, acting on his own, wouldn't have the funds).

I'm not sure why Sifo-Dyas is needed here, except to explain that the Jedi Council wouldn't be surprised about the army, as Sifo-Dyas talked about it before (a complete plot point that doesn't come to bear in the movies). If I were a Jedi, I'd still be curious about the funding though.

Sifo-Dyas being actually Sidious and not existing as a Jedi at all, as @Cobalt60 said, is completely in line with what I originally thought, and would have raised the same problems... but galactic money seemed to be of little concern at this time in the franchise, like galactic fuel ;-)

Obi Wan found it.
Prematurely, I suppose, as he had followed Jango to Kamino and then to Geonosis, which also led to the discovery of the Droid Army. I guess AOTC is just the tale how Palpatine needed to adjust his plans because the war started earlier than planned... at least, he got to kill a lot of Jedi in the arena.

Within hours/days? the army was fighting with the Jedi against the separatists. They didn't have time to question it, but I'm sure there were plenty of questions.
The Clone Wars lasted for three years, and I doubt that every Jedi was a General, 24/7. Was Jocasta Nu a General? I doubt it, and even if, didn't the Jedi have some extra personnel who might have follow the trails? Even with the additional Sifo-Dyas backstory that came from wherever, there are so many holes. Even I, who has the benefit of being an outsider with all the Sith info as well, have questions.

They clearly were not able to tie the clone army to the Sith and that was their downfall. They had no reason to question Sifo Dyas motivations... he was on the Jedi Council at one point. They didn't even think Dooku was a 'bad guy'.. just a political idealist. They had no way to connect Dooku to Tyranus any more than they had a way to connect Palpatine to Sidious. By the time they had the connection, Order 66 made it too late.
That's another point that I don't quite get: Dooku is with the Geonosians, who at this time construct an army of battle droids, so what do the Jedi think about him at that time? That he's just somehow a side character in the separatist movement? That someone else calls the shots when it comes to slaughtering Jedi and preparing a war? ... What do they think later, when Dooku is revealed as (one of?) the leader(s) of the separatists? How bad do you need to be before the Jedi put you on Santa's Naughty List?

But yes, morals are sketchy here anyway. It's the same movie, after all, where a woman dedicated to peace and stuff falls in love with the guy who just confessed to her that he slaughtered women and children, and she marries him in secrecy and tells no f-ing one in his order about the issues he may have - so no one will ever help him overcome his aggression issues.

Finally, if we allow the Darth Plagueis novel into canon... we get the answer that Damask Holdings ... owned by Plagueis <also unknown as a Sith, funded the clones. Then Sidious kills Plagueis, Dooku kills Sifo Dyas and there we are. Funded by a holding company linked to the Intergalactic Banking Clan which were separatist linked... but again, no direct connection to tell the Jedi that this was a plot to destroy the Jedi. They were a bit arrogant... Order 66 ... not so arrogant anymore.
Well, this is the easiest part; someone has to pay for the army, and Sidious has the money, so... but still, what do the Jedi know about that? If they find that "the Separatists" apparently financed the Republic's army, what would that mean to them? It even becomes worse after the Clone Wars episode in which they DO find out, and STILL don't bother to find a trap within the clone army.

-- But the bottom line is, all of those explanations and tie-ins and backstories should not be needed if the movie had done its duty and at least made the plans and intent of every actor clear, as well as the very basic logic behind the plot.

Back to the actual topic now.
 
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^^ that was the original intent.

originally, GL's name for the mysterious jedi was "Sido Dyas" (aka: sidious).
but in one instance in the screenplay, he accidentally typed "Sifo" instead of "Sido"
(because the F and D are adjacent on the keyboard).

enter: Sifo Dyas -- this character was the result of a TYPO. :rolleyes:



Yes that's very accurate, I want to say you're even the one who originally taught me this as I OFTEN bring up the strange and largely unexplored (on film) Sifo-Dyas events. Now here's one thing I've thought though, say if the final film actually DID come out Sido-Dyas, AKA Sidious AKA Palpatine, well...isn't that even MORE suspect? I mean, wouldn't the Jedi be like...who the hell is Jedi Master Sido-Dyas? There's no one here by that name. So maybe using the alias of a real Jedi, as comical as it is that his actual name mirrors so closely Sidious just due to the typo flub, actually is a happy accident. Because now you have a patsy to pin the creation of the Clone Army on. And considering he's missing or dead, I forget what the canon Sifo-Dyas explanation was in CW, it means Palpatine as a suspect is off the table. By using the name Sido-Dyas, a fake Jedi, it openly reveals to the Jedi that some outside force is behind this...and that then lends shade on adopting the clone army. It would clue them in on, hey, maybe we shouldn't utilize this army. This is fishy. At least with an alias of a real Jedi you remove THAT plothole. Now granted, they don't know Palpatine has his own alias as Sith Lord Darth Sidious, but just the fact Sido-Dyas isn't even a real Jedi is clearly suspicious. So detective works dictates now they'd know someone pretended to be a Jedi and made the army and that person used the name Sido-Dyas, a Jedi no one knows of. Then add in that Dooku then informs Obi-Wan of Sidious's existence, not his identity, but that that is the mysterious Siths titled name. So THEN...putting two and two together, Sido-Dyas and Sidious, that's a pretty clear message...DON'T use the clones. It's like Van Helsing checking a hotel log and Dr. Acula checked in last night. So l'd say that is why they stuck with the typo of Sifo-Dyas, even if originally a mistake. There are even more holes in using Sido-Dyas.

But...all that said, I still think it's a drastic oversight to NOT have the Jedi (on film) investigate all this or at least IMPLY they will with a throw-away line and a resolution to it come ROTS. Because even if they believe Sifo-Dyas did this, privately ordered the creation of a clone army in secret, well...why? And isn't it shady he is missing or dead now as well? The whole thing just reeks of something's up...and it doesn't smell good. And you don't need force abilities to recognize that. It, by proxy, makes the Jedi (IMO) look completely stupid. They quite literally have all this bizarre behind the scenes puppeteering that's plainly evident and instead of launching an investigation into this COMPLETELY conveniently timed POOF out of nowhere clone army, they just roll with it without question.

They might as well have Yoda say, "Man! We could really use an army right now," and have Obi-Wan call saying "Guess whaaaaat I found, guys?"
 
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The prequels shoulda been about the Jedi badly losing (or perhaps barely winning) the clone wars, which would decimate them down far enough for Palpatine to finish the job with Darth Vader.
 
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The need to fill in and retcon every nook and cranny of Star Wars killed my favorite thing about it when I was a kid... The interpretation. This let my imagination run wild with figures. I even had a double of obi wan that i magic markered blonde and used as Anakin.
 
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The prequels shoulda been about the Jedi badly losing (or perhaps barely winning) the clone wars, which would decimate them down far enough for Palpatine to finish the job with Darth Vader.
The first mistake was starting with Anakin SO young. They could have had him somewhere between Ep1 and Ep2 in age and that would have put him closer to Padme's age then. Preteen Anakin crushing on Padme would have made more sense. Puberty is an awful word, but it would have validated the emotions and anger. THEN we could have gotten a much more 'Warsy' Clone Wars in AOTC and I would have left a cliffhanger of "What is Anakin going to do?" (either a choice to end the Clone Wars... kill Palpatine...leave the order... something like that)

Finish the trilogy with Anakin making his choice and give us more than 10 seconds of Vader in the armor being as Vadery as he can be. Rogue One gave us the best Vader that has ever been onscreen.
 
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In the old Starlog (iirc) interview the timeline of the prequels was supposed to be different in regards to Anakins age, yeah.

But I consider it all nonkanonne. Rogue One is the only prequel, The Mandalorian is the only sequel.
 
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I've always had major issues with Anakin's age too. The justification's always been that George wanted to show him when he was innocent, but what I've never understood is...so...ONLY a 9 year old or younger can be innocent? Couldn't he just as easily have been introduced as, say, 16, 17, 18? That age would be less...graining.
 
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I guess because he wanted to show how Anakin was anchored by "attachments", thus the first one being his mom. And how losing those close to him is what tuned him to the Darkside, which I always found odd because not everyone needs to suffer great loss to turn them. Some people have true evil within, after all how tragic was Plagueis' life before he became a Sith or Palpatine's for that matter. He had a high ranking govt. job for crying out loud.

There's also the issue of Luke being 20ish when he's taken under Obi-Wan's wing for training, yet being told he was too old when it came time for Yoda to train him. Well if Anakin had been the same age when he was recruited by the Jedi it would lend more credence to being to old for training due to how Anakin fell. Unless you're saying he was already a Jedi by 16-20 and that we simply joined the journey/story much later in is life.

I don't think it could have been told any differently/better if the intent was to portray Anakin as a pawn who was later redeemed. If they wanted to portray him as an absolute terror in the Galaxy with no redeeming qualities that would have been far simpler to do.
 
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The entire prequel trilogy should have been about The Clone Wars and Anakin's descent into the madness of Darth Vader over the course of the three movies. Obi-Wan should have been a 30 something and Anakin a 20 something. A man who becomes more and more seduced by the Dark Side though what he sees during the war, his own actions, his deteriorating relationship with Padme/Obi-Wan and the influence of Palpatine.

Throughout the three films there should have been significant slippages that allowed a one time honourable guy to be chipped away at by the temptation and ease of the darker path of Force usage. Have him opt for questionable use of his power to achieve a victory. Maybe we see him killing innocent civilian and justifying it as a means to an end. By the time of the last movie, he is at complete odds with Obi-Wan's and the Council's philosophies and increasingly under the dubious tutelage of Senator Palpatine, who isn't the most obvious bad guy in the room. By the end all of Anakin's relationships have broken down and the finale is his fight with Kenobi and his conversion to Vader.

As things are and how the prequels play out, though, is probably the absolute worst way they could have possibly gone.
 
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There's also the issue of Luke being 20ish when he's taken under Obi-Wan's wing for training, yet being told he was too old when it came time for Yoda to train him. Well if Anakin had been the same age when he was recruited by the Jedi it would lend more credence to being to old for training due to how Anakin fell. Unless you're saying he was already a Jedi by 16-20 and that we simply joined the journey/story much later in is life.
The "too old" thing is Yoda goading Luke though. He's testing him to see if he has patience. A test Luke fails. But Luke fails a lot of Yoda's tests. Of course this is a natural thing for one so young and the lessons are as much about Luke recognising his failures and trying to do better later. But I never got the impression that either Ben or Yoda actually were anywhere near to refusing Luke because of his age.
 
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re: attachments.

Old Ben tells us: "the force is what gives a jedi his power" --and-- "the force is an energy field created by all living things" --> translation : a jedi draws his "power" from "all living things".

meanwhile, Anakin tells us : "compassion" is central to the Jedi Way -- which he defines as "love" (for "all living things") --> this is what "connects" a jedi to the force.



BUT anakin is NOT connected (by love) to "all living things" -- he is only connected by love to ONE living thing (namely: padme). (oops!)

this places padme in mortal danger... why? because when anakin was dying on mustafar, he reached out into the force, and he drew power from... Padme Herself. (oops!)

as HE got stronger, SHE got weaker... until she actually died... why? BECAUSE she shared a "bond of Love" with a Jedi. (oops!)



this "bond of love" is what killed her. (aka: she died of a 'broken heart').

this is why a Jedi can't form "attachments" -- it's too dangerous. (not for the Jedi, but for the people around him).
 
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I like TLJ and I think DJ is maybe most annoying character in all of Star Wars. I guess L3-37 has him beat, but that’s not a sequel. Holdo wasn’t supposed to be likable intentionally, it’s a twist that she’s a good guy. I thought Rose was really sweet. Jannah and Zorri are absolutely nothing characters, I can’t imagine anybody in the world having any strong opinions on them. I have no idea what they were going for with DJ. Like I get what he represents but like whatever performance Benicio Del Toro was directed to give misses the mark for me.

D-0 is up there too. Not as cute as BB-8, annoying voice, pointless addition to the cast that serves no purpose. Also he’s like Rain Man: the droid.
 
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Phasma and Rose for being wasted characters. They were interesting, but JJ let them down.

Honorable Mention: Snokes in a tank.
 
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